Looking to enter the industry

Hi guys i am looking to get into the industry and i'm not sure which courses would be better suited.

As it stands now i have no knowledge at all about programming

If you have the time could you please look at these and let me know which you think would be better.

I plan on doing a 6 month short course first then one of these.

AIE
http://www.aie.edu.au/courses/cert_iv_it.php
followed by
http://www.aie.edu.au/courses/adv_dip_game_programming.php

Qantm
http://www.qantm.com.au/program_details.cfm?id=3

Or should i go out and get a Computer science degree?

 

I'd recommend a CS degree as it would be a much more valuable pre-requisite than anything you could attain in only 6 months..

I'd also recommend searching jobs pages for companies you think you'd like to work for & observing what they ask for..

There are tons of resources online to help you get into video games development from GameDev.net to Gamasutra.com to creators.xna.com & it would be a good idea to start checking them all out once you have some programming experience under your belt..

Lastly you don't need to wait until you start your academic training before you decide to pick up programming & games development.. Grab a copy of Visual [insert language here].NET Express & maybe a good book on the language you wish to start learning & just get straight into it.. The quicker you do, the better you'll be at it & also the more it will help you in your academics also..

Good luck!!

 

I can't emphasise this enough....no matter what degree course you do...write some games....any kind of games...preferably in c/c++ but learn to program and write some games. Use whatever you learn during your degree to improve your coding, expand your understanding of language systems and structure...but write some games.

Then when you have your bit of paper, no matter what the level..you will have games to show a prospective employer....and that...will get you a job!!!


oh...and even though I said any kind of games...be realistic...don't jump in to an MMO or some massive 3D RPG...just write space invaders or Pac-Man or something that gets you started...then build on that, and write some games

 

The sum total of these comes to 2 1/2 years so actually I'd say screw the CS degree quite frankly. These days, given a choice between someone with a CS degree and a Games one, I'd take the Games one as I know they'll have C++ experience, increasingly you don't get that on a CS degree

Besides, if you really need a qualification in Comp Sci, you can do it in a one year post graduate course.

 

To offer a counter opinion, given the choice between someone with a CS degree and someone with a games degree I'd favour the person with the CS degree. Much more likely to have a solid understanding of how computers work, how algorithms work, and how to learn whatever programming languages are required; and much less likely to think games are just a doss or have been taught over-specific APIs that aren't relevant or are even obsolete without the understanding of the principles behind them.

Although obviously... there's a lot more to it than just a degree. And I'd back up Brian's advice to write some games. IMO a CS degree + a number of games written in your spare time > a games degree any day of the week.

And if worse comes to worst and you don't get the games job, a CS degree will still be useful, a games degree won't be.

 

The AIE courses seem bang on and probably more directly useful than a CS degree. The Qantm course seems broader and shallower, to its detriment I think - "narrative and character development" or "level design" may interest you but as a games programmer would be outside your discipline. Still useful knowledge, perhaps, but very secondary.

I think the best grounding is a CS degree, plus teaching yourself C++ in your spare time while you're there, plus writing some games in your spare time. A CS degree will give you the grounding to become a better engineer later - it just doesn't by itself make you particularly employable the moment you graduate. You need to work at that on your own.

Conversely, the AIE course is all directly applicable, but I think it could leave you weak on the fundamentals you'll need later on - and you'll need an edge to differentiate your CV and land your first job. That edge is easy: write some games! Odds are on any games related course you'll be working on a few as class projects, which will help, but try to go beyond that to get the practice and build up your portfolio.

The fundamentals are harder. The AIE course lists "Compilers" as an area of study, but likely means using them rather than writing them. Writing an interpreter, emulator or compiler is a valuable exercise in learning how a programming language actually makes stuff happen. Also, find out whether "Abstract data types and algorithms" covers complexity theory and Big O notation. Another major issue now is safe multithreaded programming: see if that's in there. These are things you should study on your own IMO if they aren't covered.

Finally, writing even simple games from scratch in C++ is hard. You need to learn a lot before you can even get started, and that can be very offputting if you're learning on your own. Since you'll be taking formal C++ courses, I'd suggest getting Python and PyGame if you want to get started now. You can make simple games in that, then when you're getting confident with C++ you can pick a rendering library and move over. Generally, think 80s arcade games... back then one professional developer might do a game in a few months, so the designs they implemented are realistic to attempt alone.

Disclaimer: I'm no hiring manager, just some programmer Best of luck!

 

No,...no it isn't, I'm sorry I keep seeing people say this and it scares the shit out of people for no reason...

Get a good book, (Beginning C++ Game Programming is excellent) and leanr write tic tac toe in a dos window, then improve on it...Then get another book learn SDL or Open GL (Beginning OpenGL Games programming is also very good) or DirectX interfaces....then write a graphic game..like ohhh Tic Tac Toe and pat yourself on the back

The key point here is BEGINNING...don't jump in at the deep expecting to write Halo 5...learn the language and the concepts behind structured thinking and programming and build on it a day at a time.

I mean this...there's nothing at all hard about programming* its just daunting to start off with if you set your goals way above your zero ability.....just get stuck in, you'll make a lot of mistakes in the 1st couple of weeks and there will be much wtf head scratching, but if you have an aptitude for it, you'll get past that pretty quick if you just sit down in front of a PC with a compiler and keep going.

If you don't have an aptitude for it...stop!...Just Stop.

I'd disagree totally with randomnine and would tell you to stay away from other languages or game dev kits until you're totally comfortable with C++ (or at least C) once you have one language in your brain you can use well, the others become very simple to learn. If you do start out with some of these easier languages you'll not get nearly as much excercise in programatical problem solving which you need early on to develop as a programmer...you'll end up with a "it was easy in Python, why can't we use Python, I know how to do it in Python" attitude when arguing with your lead programmer when he asks you to write a C++ module for a game that dosn't use Python.......get the basics in your head 1st, then play with the toys you may or may not end up using in future.

*Let me qualify, I don't to my dying day belive programming is hard...what is hard is learning all the stuff you need to use in your programming, maths, physics, hardware control etc....the actual concept of moving memory/variables around, conditionally testing for things looping until conditions are met or deciding on where the program flows are all dead simple...its getting your head round using the these programming tools to achieve the results that takes time to learn. But even that come with practice and repeated use.

 

I learnt C++ from a Schaums Guide. It's direct and to the point.

Of course it depends how you want learn but I don't go in to for these wordy bible like C++ books as I can't be arsed listening to the author ramble on about useless gumpf which only he cares about. Those books often spend more time telling you HOW, in their opinion, you should program rather than telling you how the language actually works. For example, Scott Meyers rambles about how wonderful macros are for the first chapter of one of his books - yet to my mind, macros are in fact the spawn of satan - the point being that he should have just given examples of how to use them, not wax lyrical about them.

Also depends how fast you want to learn - I only wanted to spend a week or so in my spare time to get up and running in C++. Of course I had a background in C but that just meant I skipped several chapters.

Obviously it's not exhaustive - programming is a lifelong expedition - but I guarantee theres enough information in this book to get you up and running.

http://www.amazon.com/Schaums-Outline-Programming-John-Hubbard/dp/0071353461

Here's the table of contents. Starts with hello world, ends with templates:

http://enterprise.aacc.cc.md.us/~rhs/soindex.html

Second task (while you're waiting for your book to arrive):

Download Microsoft Visual Studio Express

Third task (once you've understood how to make basic hello world applications in C++):

Download the latest Microsoft DirectX SDK

Fourth task:

Create your own graphical demo by hijacking one of the DirectX samples.

Fifth task:

Turn it into a simple game.

 

If someone's got the motivation to stick with it, sure - C++ all the way!

But I've recommended that in the past, and I'm yet to see someone go from "not programming" to "programming C++" without a few false starts. These are people who have later managed to engage with it - through more realistic expectations or better self-motivation and maybe a better approach - and become competent developers. In spare time endeavours I feel it's valid to make compromises to stay motivated.

I guess I should have clarified that it is a compromise, though. More time working with C++ would be fantastic and would give you more free time during your course (to make games in!). Python simply requires less dedication to get started with and would be better than nothing IMO.

Personally, for learning C++, I'm a big fan of Stephen Prata's C++ Primer Plus. It's a hefty book - but it's thorough, clear and less dry than most.

 

Brian is exactly right. It’s all about your experience with programming (Specifically c++) that will get you a job in the industry.

Whatever course you do decide to do, try to maintain a healthy portfolio of personal programming work. And build up all your programming knowledge into a game or show piece that you can put online or send to interviewers.

It's this extra curricular programming and hobby projects that proves a student who really wants a job in the industry over someone who has just done an appropriate academic course.

 

First and foremost you guys are legends. Thankyou for all the help, i will be picking up the books that you have recommended.

I think i'll do my own thing with the AIE aswell, and if need be do a CS degree after that seeing as i would probably only need to do the final year.

I'll let you all know of my progress (if you want to hear it :-?) and when i make a few (crappy) games i'll put them up.

Once again thanks for the help. It's greatly appreciated.

 

First mistake!

Always make them the best you can, as per the advice given above.

Good luck!

 

Correction when i make the best games

 

Go for it, dude!

 

what book was that? in the first chapter of Effective C++ he rambles on about how you should try to never use macros, or anything else using #defines for that matter.

to the original poster, once you've done all the other stuff advised in this thread and you feel that you know c++ inside out, read that book.

 

I started at a CS degree and went with it for 1 year before dropping out. My main complaint about traditional degrees in general is that I think the whole college/university system is fairly crap for teaching these sorts of trade.

After dropping out I went to what's called a "KY-utbildning" called SOFE here in Sweden, which basically means an education directed at the needs of a specific industry without the constraints and bureaucracy of a college/university. First of all SOFE had a much better environment for becoming a kick ass developer, people practically lived at the school and everybody wants to create games. The pace was also way higher, sure there was time for getting drunk, but the courses were a lot harder and people were generally a lot more motivated.

I know that since I didn't finish my degree I missed out on some goodies, but that hasn't stopped me from learning it on my own.

In the end it mostly comes down to motivation & some part talent. I don't doubt a lot of people could become kick ass enough to get a job in by just using the internet and sitting at home programming in the same amount of time a degree/whatever takes.

 

I have ordered the books that were suggested, as soon as I get them the fun will begin. Only problem is I wont see them for a month.

When some of sinks in and I make some games, thinking pac man first or space invaders. I will put them up here when they are done (could be awhile)

Another question, how hard is it to make fighting games? eg: Final Fight.

P.s. Do i get a picture? or do I need to be a private member?

 

A month? where'd you buy them from, and where are you that delivery is so slow?
2D fighting games are not harld, they're simply a sprite display system married to a complex animation list for each move. AI and control is the tricky bit, and would be a good project to do once got your basics sorted.

Dunno if its a members only thing, since I can't see any options that stop me from having one, goto the User CP and follow the instructions to upload an avatar?

 

I have to wait a month because I ordered from the US (2 weeks to get them all in, 2 weeks to ship) amazon was much cheaper. The one you suggested was $19 or there abouts, at home (australia) they want $59.95 for it.

P.s. I uploaded an image when I created the account, must be a member thing.