What kind of incentives should I be interested in?

Hello forum,

I'm applying for programming roles (AI & Physics) and I got some replies form companies. Having never worked in the games industry before, what kind of incentives should I be interested in when negotiating an offer?

Also, I've heard about a share options scheme, any idea how this works?

Many thanks in advance.
Hasan.

 

Ask about their crunch policies. Seriously. If they expect multiple months of 60+ hour weeks, then unless they actually pay overtime, there is very, very little chance that any incentives scheme is going to make up for the time you work.

 

Thanks Parm,

How about the average salaries for programming positions (1 year experience), they need me to provide a minimum salary in order to take my application further. I don't want to shoot too high and miss my chance and I don't want to sound disperate either.

P.S. The company is located in Scotland.

 

I'd say a bare minimum of 20K to get you by in Scotland (I'm assuming Dundee or Glasgow here). Edinburgh's a bit more expensive, but probably not enough to skew salary.

It's a bit hard to say with such few details, but since you have experience, it's all about how good you come across in your interview. For 20K, being competent is probably fine, but for 24K I'd expect you to be pretty sharp and know your stuff, so you'd have to be convincing in interview to justify it. Going higher than that and you'd have to really wow me to get the desired salary.

Bear in mind though that I'm an employer, and so I'm erring on the cheap side here. In all cases if someone proposed a salary that I didn't feel their skills justified, I wouldn't hold it against them, and would simply push back with what I thought was a reasonable figure. So I doubt you'll miss your chance by shooting too high.

EDIT: Oh, and I wouldn't value share options as part of a remunerations package. They'd like to offer you bonuses and share options, because promises don't cost the company anything. I'd base your decision solely on salary, quality of life (i.e. how much overtime is expected/normal) and environment (i.e. how much do you like the look of the place you're going to live). When it all pans out, few of the other perks they might offer you as part of the package amount to much.

 

Always ask about:

Relocation (if you're relocating)
Bonuses/Royalties (these are not the same thing!)
Healthcare, Dental, Eyecare
Pension
Appraisal procedures (so you know how you'll get a pay rise later)
Career Advancement (to senior/lead, again so you can get more later)

The more you know the better...

 

Thanks MrCranky,

See it's a bit complicated to pin point my experience... I have worked for 3 years making infotainment games and tools using flash and director, and during my one year msc course I developed two game prototypes (with other collegues) one of them was for Dare to be Digital 07... so I'm not totally fresh but not that experienced in "the games industry".

Btw, The company is in Dundee, and the position is Senior AI Programmer. True, I like challenge but my qualificatinos fit the requirements.

 

Thanks Sartori,

Ok, this just in.. they offer the following

- Relocation Package
- Flexitime
- 33 days holiday
- Carers and emergency leave
- Private medical insurance
- Company contributed pension
- Royalty sharing scheme
- Personal discounts on Dell computers
- Childcare voucher scheme
- Income protection if unable to work
- Life Insurance

Sounds quite interesting, no specific details about amounts but I guess if I was lucky to get to the interview I'll find out.

 

20k seems a bit high for a grad in Scotland.

 

Only by a little. 18-20K might be typical for a graduate, but I stand by my statement that 20K should be the minimum salary. I'm of the opinion that paying graduates peanuts is one of the reasons why the industry has skills shortages; I know more than one graduate who wanted to work in the games industry but found they'd get paid about thrupence and ha'penny, and went and got a job in 'regular' software instead for a salary they could actually live on.

Besides, the OP said 1 year experience, which I took to mean in the games industry proper - so not really a graduate.

 

Well, we can probably guess who it is if they are in Dundee and offering that! However, I'm intrigued to hear they actually asked for salary details _before_ the interview so they 'could take the application further'. I find that truly bizarre - the implication surely being that if you ask for too much, they reject you out of hand, without an interview to even see how good you are. If you ask for too little and you are actually the best programmer ever in the interview, they aren't going to go above that initial figure.

Seems to me they are more interested in balancing the books rather than attracting the best talent.

Anyway, I've heard from several different people this company can be a bit stingy with salary offers. See what happens though.

 

If anyone knows, what would be a good starting salary for working in the games industry in the US or Canada?

 

Surely if you need to be told, they're not really incentives, are they?

 

Regarding the salary question, I find it bizarre that they're asking you to provide them with an estimate. It really does smack of stinginess on their part, trying to low-ball you. Personally-speaking, I've never gotten into salary negotiations until during the interview, normally towards the end when they've realised they're not wasting their time with me. And even then, the rule of thumb is: the first person to suggest a number will lose. Don't be that loser, your starting salary has a huge effect on your earnings over the next couple of years because annual raises are percentage based, it can take you years to get-back what you might have had with a better negotiation in the beginning. My standard response to anyone asking me for my salary expectation is: "You know what I earned in my previous job, you can see that this job would demand increased responsibilities from me in the areas of x y and z, I've got a family to feed, make me an offer."

Don't rely on bonuses, royalties, or share options (unless the company is already publically traded). They rarely amount to anything. Do pay careful attention to healthcare and pension scheme because they will be valuable, but do make sure they're not skimping on these plans (keywords: dental, eyes, family). Don't rely on promises of comp-time at the end of projects, it will almost never compensate you for the overtime you did in crunch. Exceptions are if they actually pay overtime (rare) or calculate your comp time to genuinely compensate you for every extra hour you worked on a project (slightly less rare but still rare). 33 days' holidays sounds generous, I wonder if that's actually 25 plus the 8 public holidays. Even so, still generous. 20 is the UK norm.

In summary, base salary is by far the most important thing you need to worry about in the package. Screw that up and the rest of it won't make it up for you. Relocation, couple of grand, discounts on Dell computers, a grand...you could negotiate that much extra in base salary if you're a good haggler.

 

Heh. So true. Offer me what you think I'm worth, don't ask me to suggest how little I'm prepared to get away with.

Also, while we're on the subject... counter offers? Don't waste my time. So I turned down amount A, and it turns out you were actually willing to pay me A plus 2000? Why didn't you offer me that in the first place then? Am I going to have to beg and argue and rant and moan for the next five-plus years you employ me, just to get from you what you actually think I'm worth anyway?

Just offer me what you think is a fair wage, in line with what you pay your existing staff, and everything will be fine. Start to screw around with me, and you're not showing me you're the kind of employer I want to work for.

 

It is? Poor rest of the UK - that's kinda normal for Dundee companies at the senior end IME.

 

usually from mid 30s to mid 40s (you mentioned good), this is for straigth out of school. I heard of people getting hired in the mid 20s...

 

You know this is like half a year old thread necroed by a spam bot?