Advice please?

As some of you may of heard, I am creating a 2D MMORPG. I was wondering if I could get some professional input on how to make the game better, get some ideas to inspire me, etc. I have been working on the game for the better part of a month and a half, and to be honest, I have not really changed much since starting work on the original engine that I started making the game with (mirage source). Mainly, my time was spent improving the code, or changing the GFX/GUI around. Though, happily i have added a couple features (Personal HP/MP bars under your character, Soon to have a friends list added, and also almost finished with a picture inventory, rather then words). Although, the game is coming along nicely, my forums are not... Though they seem dead, i was hoping some of you could at least look into the screen shots section, and tell me what you think of my layout for the game.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/CrimsonTwilight/index.php?

Here are some screen-shots of the game. I hope you like them!

Taken Tuesday, August 28'th, 2007

----------------------------------------
Taken Tuesday, August 28'th, 2007

----------------------------------------

 

I wouldn't work on am MMORPG as a demo. Think about it, when you send such a game to a studio do you think they are going to bother to hook-up a network of PCs to check the balance of your game. This appears to be the only option given that online activity is nil.

Game demos that are submitted tend to be single player games, and if you intend to go to the high-end developers like those working on console, PC and next-gen mobile games it would be wise to consider working on a 3D demo. 2D java game dev studios will be more inclined to look at 2D demo, but given the calibre of what is submitted I'd always go 3D.

Good luck!

 

Thank you for the advice, though that was not my intention in creating this game. It is just something to keep me occupied between programming courses, and something that makes sure i am always practicing and getting better at programming as i go.

 

It's quite difficult to offer advice because we don't really know how advanced a programmer you are.

What sorts of projects have you done before?

If you were just starting out, any kind of MMO is way too big a project and I would instead recommend a bomber man or pac man clone.

But if you've done a couple of smaller games already and are keen to learn all about networking, then sure why not.

 

Yup what PeterM said. An MMO is just a nonsensical thing to start of with, but of course its a genre you probably enjoy and you want to write what you enjoy.
Fair enough, but the reality is you probably will never finish it, its a huge amount of work and it probably won't be very good and the disapointment you will feel will be long lasting.

I can't emphasise enough the need to bite off just as much as you can chew 1st. Go find an old retro game you like, as PeterM suggests, PacMan and Bomberman are perfect, they will introduce very basic concepts that you must master in a simple to realise and immediatly effective way. Also space invaders or some other type of shootemup, (defender can be a particularly fun challenge with its scrolling) When you have that 1st game up and running, enhance it, rework it so that its faster, ther code is tighter, it runs with scripts, it becomes a living testbed for all new things you want to do..

The satsifaction you'll get from that will be 1000 times more than you'll get from a failed or poorly realised MMO and that will drive you forward to learning new things with a sense of purpose.

1 other thing I would reccomend, try to do a simple project on your own 1st...if you are working with others, you will find yourself either deferring to them, or trying to organize them...It's best you get your fundamental coding skills in place 1st before you try to work with others. Then try to work with people who are better than you who can show you new ideas and tricks that you can add and adapt to your own skills.

oh and finally, develop an awkwardness around females, they will never understand you so its best you give off a @keep away I'm a geek aura@ until you're around 30 and starting to make enough money that they won't care any more. Learn to drink alchopops...they are nice but even if you can drink more than 3, fall down and pretend to be drunk anyway, its what we all do...honest.

btw your screenshot links don't work

 

you've lead such a sheltered life my friend... alchopops? is that really want the young geeks these days are drinking?

my advice on the personal side... find yourself a geek girlfriend, the geekier the better.

 

yeah one of those whos fingers are all the same length and smells ever so slightly of BO and bleach.... they'll do anything for a shag and you must never underestimate the gratiude factor

 

I much enjoyed reading threw all of your posts guys, and thank you for the advice. I decided to work on my own MMO because of my brothers advice (he is 18, 2ed year university). This is how he learned to use Visual Basic, and was able to master it eventually. I already know how most of the codes in the engine work (Mirage Source is a completely working engine as it is... I am just adding features, and changing things such as the layout of the maps, the size's, text colors, and gui and such. Nothing major really). I have done a lot of side projects like you suggested (the latest was a 1 on 1 chat server).

As for working on my own, I am already doing this actually. I am going to be the only person programing the game apart from randomly asking for assistance with various things (Such as error messages I am unable to fix on my own, or perhaps the random tutorial). If you are taking this suggestion from what i have posted on the website, those positions are only going to be used within what is already programmed. There is a fully working map-editor in the game already, along with Item editors, npc's, shops, etc.

And a final note, I have already found a nice person that i really like. And, ironically enough, she is helping me make the GUI for the game. She wants to go into Game Design as well (I thought this was kind of funny when i first heard it, because it worked out so well!). ^^

-- Oh also, I'll add those screen-shots to my first post so you can see them.

 

So what you going to do when that engine is not available? Writing your own retro arcade games will give you many of the foundation skills you will need to both understand complex engines and eventually write your own.

VB is not really a game's coding language (though it can be done with effort) you are much better off looking into c/c++ or downloading the XNA system from Microsoft and learning c# which byt the time you have completed your education will have more of a foothold in games dev (if we are to belive the hype)

best of luck

 

Sorry, i have not actually started learning c/c++ yet. The only language that i currently know are Visual Basic and some Java. I wanted to take a "professionally taught" course for c/c++ before i actually started learning the language. Which will most likely be this year (more or less, i will know within two weeks for sure if I will be taking the course). Though, it is exactly as you have said, with those language's i will most likely be doing that. I will be creating smaller games before i even attempt a large (single-player) game.

Though lately i have not been paying attention... Any particular reason C# is a good language to learn?

 

its got good support from Microsoft, and the XNA dev system let you learn it and build games fairly easily.
It's gaining ground as a tools language and will be used more in games as it becomes more popular
C/C++ is the current standard language though and you should learn it...if you know some java its not a huge leap, though handling memory may be a little confusing (c# does this kind of housekeeping itself with with some performance cost)
C/C++ really isn't that hard to learn, you can avoid all the seemingly complex stuff until you are ready for it...even now I rarely use most of C++'s "advanced" features and my code works just fine (most of the time)

Go buy Mike Dawsons Beginning C++ game programming, its an excellent 1st steps book and very easy to follow, thereafter the Astle beginning Opengl book is a good intro to graphics programming...and by the time you get through that you should have enough core fundimentals to tackle DirectX or explore Open GL further.

Avoid any book that promises to have you writing a game at the end of it, they are all shite, and its better you get the code skills to write your own games your own way rather than follow someone elses ideas of how to write games.

 

You seem very helpful. ^^ I will try my best to get that book soon. Also, if you noticed the first post has pictures on it now... What do you think of the outlook (i just finished some code that makes it so you see a damage number above the monster you hit). ^^

 

I don't know what you mean by outlook?
Given that I spend my working day immersed in commercial quality graphics any coments I make are going to sound harsh and I'd rather not put you off, if you're happy with it, that's what matters.

 

I agree with Brian pretty much completely here.

If you're serious about getting into large scale games, learning C++ is absolutely required. C# is nice, but it's only on PCs and Xbox 360. Not Nintendo, not Sony.

But it's probably quite possible to make a game using C# & XNA, sell it on Xbox Live Arcade and retire from the profits.

I have to completely disagree with the sentiment that C++ isn't hard to learn. I read somebody's signature one time that said C++ is an octopus made by nailing legs onto a dog. It's absolutely true.

C++ will trick you into thinking you know it every step of the way. Don't believe it. Unless you're a guru, your code is always riddled with bugs you don't know about yet.

The typical C++ path:

• Learn C.
• "Woo I know C!"
• Learn some class basics.
• "Woo I know C++!"
• Discover the C++ standard library.
• "Damn, I know nothing!"
• Learn some STL, some templates.
• "Woo I know C++, for real this time!"
• Discover exceptions.
• "Damn, I know nothing again!"
• Learn some exceptions, write some code that handles exceptions but isn't exception safe.
• "Woo I know C++, I'm sure of it!"
• Learn about exception safety.
• "Damn, I really know nothing and all the code I've written so far is a piece of leaky shit."
• ...

To help avoid pain, pick up the Scott Meyers and Herb Sutter books (and/or read the Guru of the Week articles), read the C++ FAQ Lite. This is of critical importance. You may as well do it right now.

Try your best to avoid the "tar pits" (maximum work, minimum/no reward) of learning to program:

• Pretty (but pointless) terrain engines
• Ray tracers
• MMOs!
• Writing your own zlib/libpng/jpeglib/whatever when there is a perfectly viable one out there written for you already.

Good luck and see you on the other side!

 

oh dont' scare him off, yes full blown professional C++ is complex and tricky, but the key point is to get going, and the nice thing about C++ is there a lot of ways to do the same thing, and if you dont' totally understand the complicated C++ way of doing it, there's usually a less tidy but just as effective way to do it.

My point is, it IS actually pretty simple to get going in C++, so long as you don't try to overreach, put some stuff on screen learn how to code, and gradually add the tricky stuff as and when you need it and it'll make more sense if you use it when you need it rather than getting headlong into templates because the book/course says you should.

Learn to walk 1st...yes C++ is a huge complex and occasionally nasty language, but the simple core of it will get you through most of the problems you'll encounter and get your brain wired into coding mode so that the nasty stuff won't scare the shit out of you when you first see it.

You'll never master it, even if you are a guru, but thats the fun part

 

C++ is to wife as programmer is to husband; its a marriage... doesn't matter how much you think you know or understand you still won't have a clue why she bursts into tears watching an advert.

 

haha.. nice.

Well, school for me starts again this Tuesday coming up. I figure i will look around for any programming courses that i can get, but since i live in such a small school, i sincerely doubt that i will get anything worth while. I think i might switch from my MMO towards just making smaller, single player games like you guys suggested. I'm thinking something like break-out. However, I'll still hold off doing that until i get a good book or two for C++/C#. Thanks for the advice guys, i figure I'll still work on my game from time to time... but not as much as i was.

 

Nice little last minuit update for everyone...

I have decided to change the engine for the game to somthing called Elysium Diamond. Though, that just increases my work for the game i have decided that I am only doing this game in my spare time for 'fun'. And because of that i wanted the most features possible without having to add each one (try not to mention how cheep that sounds... ^^). Anyway, i'll Update you guys again in a couple days when i have all the changes from my old client pushed over to the new one. =D

P.S. You guys really need more public posts... I barely get to read anything on this website.

 

Good luck with your project, mate!