Looking for artists to work on a flash/web game side project

Hello!

I am about a third of the way through a flash game and am looking for some artists to help me polish and finish it.

It's a prototype for an iOS/Android game. Once the flash version is finished I will publish it on the web, gather feedback from the masses and use the feedback to make the portable version the absolute bizzle (yo!).

I currently need someone to do some scrollable backgrounds and special effects. Not a lot of work for someone experienced and something fun and simple for someone looking to build up their experience.

It's 'on-the-side' hence I can't pay you anything but any contributors will be credited and will also share in any profits it ultimately makes.

pm me for more details if you're interested.


H.

 

No offense dude, but if you're not confident enough in the project to pay somebody for the work they're doing on it, why would they be confident enough in it to provide a service with no guarantee of payment for their efforts?

Some money, ANY money will stand you a lot more stead. We all get a million "Hey, if you do this for free I'll give you a credit at profit share" every day.

 

Ah OK Rusty, thanks for the 'constructive' criticism.

And no offense to you but, don't be so cynical.

Believe it or not, people do stuff for fun all the time. I've spent most of my life investing time and effort in music be it DJ'ing in clubs or in rock bands, and not once have I ever thought 'well i'm not getting paid for it so I'm not gonna do it'.

OK so this is an 'industry' forum full of professionals and some of the people on here may be tainted. But that's why i decided to post on the public forums, and I thought there might be some students or testers that are looking to bulk up their port-folio's (that's essentially what I want to do anyway).

A lot of people who work in the games industry knowingly get exploited and are motivated by the passion for games - and most certainly not the money - so I can't see how asking around to see if people are interested in collaborating without the promise of immediate riches, is a problem.

Thanks for ruining my thread anyway (and if it makes you happy - if you want to help me out, i'll chuck you £50 and take you out for dinner afterwards.)

H.

 

Apparently "professionals" are "tainted" by wanting "money" for their "professional skills". Huh.

 

I see advice similar to Rusty_Nutz's comment above given to artists (yes, only artists) all over the interent.

But I never see a valid explanation as to why programmers (who for various reasons, start the majority of amateur projects - and more serious indie projects) are expected to take all the risk while artists deserve cold hard cash from day one!

Most indie coders aren't exactly wealthy... and from their point of view, it's seems much better for the team to have shared ownership/revenue sharing on a project than trying to pay by the hour/by the pixel for artwork - as it encourages everyone to really put the effort in - and ensures that everyone is rewarded if the end result is a big hit.

Of course, if you're going to put any significant amount of hours into any project, in any role - you want to be careful who you choose to work with - look for evidence that the project will be able to be completed to a level of quality that you're happy with.

Wouldn't you be annoyed if you turned down a revenue share on a game, in exchange for a few hundred quid up-front, and then the game turned out to be the next Minecraft or Angry Birds?

 

Sorry, to clarify my point...

My point was that if you're asking for people to work on a game with you, anonymously on a forum for industry veterans, and expecting them to work for free then you're either rude, or seriously naive.

ANYBODY working on a product (any product, any industry) should be paid something for the work they put in. These earnings could be considered an "Advance on Royalty" and claimed back once the game is out before any profit share is given.

If there is no money to pay for any time/work then I would also assume that there is no money for legal documentation which would be essential for any profit share to work as well as ensuring that all people working on the game are protected from liabilities that may arise later on.

You also need to pay "something" to show that you actually own the work if it gets released and to save yourself from being sued on release.

It's all well and good having a "pet project" and getting a group of mates who know and trust each other is a good start on this. But this is a commercial venture and should be treated as such from the off. You can knock up a quick document with mates and have it changed into legal speak later on, but when dealing with contractors there should be a contract in place from the start.

And that requires money. And if there is money to pay a lawyer for their service in drawing up the paperwork, why isn't there money for the other people providing their skills.

"Hey! I have a project in mind but I'm not willing to risk anything myself other than time" is hardly the greatest commitment to a project and nor does it inspire confidence to any prospective partners.

And for that reason, I'm out... (In a Dragons Den voice...)

 

Of course, you're right, and yes I have probably been naive as I honestly didn't realize there was so much tension regarding this subject. So sorry if I've upset anyone.

My rationale for posting on a forum called "I wanna be a game artist" was that I imagined people starting off or looking for small projects to build up their port folio etc. would be looking there. Not people looking for paid contracts.

That is all.

p.s.
The offer of dinner is still on ;-)

 

Sorry you're taking the criticism so badly.

But they have a point.

If you're looking for free work from people who want to 'prove' themselves then you'd probably be better off posting at Flash fan sites, or looking to your local art school. Or even places like DeviantArt.

But I think you're pitching to the wrong audience here - most of the posters on TCE already work in games (or were, and still contribute, much as I do) and probably are past the stage of 'proving themselves' by working for free on someone else's game.

As Rusty points out - there's a world of difference between a bunch of mates clubbing together to make something for free and actually advertising on a forum for free help from strangers. I'm sure you can see the difference, non?

 

I don't think Haroldsacks has done anything wrong.

He's laid out the basics of the deal he wants to offer and has asked if anyone is interested. If I wasn't so busy I might be tempted to enquire about it. It might be a mind blowing game he's got... The royalty cut might be amazing...But regardless of that, anyone that is interested knows that there won't be any guaranteed cash before they discuss it by DM.

Someone here might want to take a punt, and Harry has been upfront about the situation. If you're only going to consider paid jobs, then don't DM him. If he'd said "I'm looking for an artist", or posted in the 'Jobs and Careers' fourm without mentioning the financial situation beforehand, then it'd be a bit low, but he hasn't so it seems fair enough to me.

 

He said "professionals" were "tainted". I don't think expecting to be paid is "tainted". I think it's "reasonable", and "a way to house, feed and clothe myself and my family".

 

No he didn't. He just said "some of the people on here may be tainted". I'm not sure why you're randomly gluing his words together to make it look like he's having a dig at everyone on here.

But in his first post he's clearly not offering paid employment. If you're "expecting to be paid" then a gig that is signposted as non-paying probably isn't for you.

He's doing the equivalent of saying "I've got this race horse, I think it could win us some money, do you want in?", and you can evaluate the offer, take the risk, and hopefully get a pay off. But, if you're in a situation where your first concern is putting a roof over your head, or you're not into risk taking, then skip by and keep looking for paid work instead.

I expect we'll see a lot more joint ventures like this, built on 'sweat equity', and a more interesting conversation for me would be how to protect the parties involved with the minimum amount of paperwork and legal fees. I've seen templates for speculative TV co-productions (that are approved by PACT) maybe something similar could work for speculative games development..?

 

I don't think Harold has done anything wrong either. But, he's a total stranger. So there's no trust, no track record to offer as collateral - and experience has taught many of us that the majority of projects that start like this end up coming to nothing.

If it was pitched like that? Not really. How many unproductive free jobs would you have to do before you hit upon the one-in-a-million runaway success?

 

People are anonymous and low key on TCE for all kinds of reasons, and none of them have much to do with the ability to deliver a game. If you dropped Harold a DM and he still wouldn't tell you about himself and his track record, then sure, run a mile. I see the offer as being "Do you want to talk?", rather than "Commit yourself blindly, now".

Didn't Miyamoto say he wanted to start making small side projects again...you don't think..?

 

I reckon Miyamoto out to come right out and say who he is then; he'll get a better quality of artist applying...

But what I'm saying is, if somebody I know wants to collaborate on a pro bono basis, then yeah, I could be keen. If it's someone I don't know... well... it'd take some serious persuading.

 

HaroldSacks,

I'd recommend you try http://www.game-artist.net instead. It has a forum for unpaid projects and is in general quite a helpful and friendly place. As opposed to us bitter old bastards.
Good luck with your game.

 

Don't like Funky's new thread. So I posted here.