Am I more or less likely to get a job now

TheUmpteenth · 05-01-2010, 10:18 PM

that I've got 2 and a bit years experience? I seem to be having the same amount of luck as when I was a new graduate (although I've learned not to use agencies).

To be fair, my demos have not changed, I've been making games for my job, and had less spare time to program in.

GDave · 05-01-2010, 10:43 PM

I know nothing of a programmers right of way, but if it's anything like anything else, then you need to stay on top... I'm a relatively competent artist... but if I were to get made redundant right now I would need to spend a few months building up a new portfolio before any company would even give me the time of day. A bit of a catch 22, I guess. Personal Work > Job < Personal Work. Which is fine and dandy so long as I'm employed, if I wasn't though... I'd be working on new stuff immediately.

As I say though... I know nothing about the hiring of programmers.

MaciejS · 05-01-2010, 11:00 PM

Do you have any finished projects on your resume? Generally speaking, it should be easier for you now than it was when you were fresh after uni. Potential problem is, with all recent lay-offs, there are many really experienced people (~7-10+ years) looking for work right now, so it probably makes things harder for juniors.

TheUmpteenth · 06-01-2010, 12:50 AM

I have three published games, one canned title and two more in the works. I think that GDave's probably right about me needing to update my portfolio, though.
am I gonna have a chance over a graduate? Does that mean I should be looking for a graduate position?
a junior position is all I'm looking for.

redBastard · 06-01-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUmpteenth
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I have three published games, one canned title and two more in the works. I think that GDave's probably right about me needing to update my portfolio, though.
am I gonna have a chance over a graduate? Does that mean I should be looking for a graduate position?
a junior position is all I'm looking for.

Hey "ump", based on your (even short) experience, you should definitely have an advantage over graduates. You know the dev process and have shipped titles whereas most graduates have not.

Like with anything though, hiring all comes down to money. Some companies may prefer to hire graduates for certain tasks because they are usually less expensive to hire than people with experience. Depends on a lot of other factors too though, almost all of which are out of your control (i.e. timing, current team make up, tasks/projects at hand, available budget, etc).

Clean up your resume and update your portfolio. It's worth your time to show that you definitely have useful skills to offer. It's a tough job market right now, but stick to your guns and don't shoot yourself in the foot too early
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AN_D_K · 06-01-2010, 10:24 AM

Are you sure you're applying to every possible company? The last few people I've known who have moved to a new company I've had to ask "who are they then?"

I don't know if it's worth trying a recruitment agent just to smooth over any edges? The catch is that it will make you more expensive to hire. I'd rarely recommend using a recruiter but it was useful for me when I only had a years experience.

TheUmpteenth · 06-01-2010, 10:26 AM

Thanks everyone. I'm not blaming myself now. The jobs market squarely shoulders the blame.

TheUmpteenth · 06-01-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AN_D_K
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Are you sure you're applying to every possible company? The last few people I've known who have moved to a new company I've had to ask "who are they then?"

I don't know if it's worth trying a recruitment agent just to smooth over any edges? The catch is that it will make you more expensive to hire. I'd rarely recommend using a recruiter but it was useful for me when I only had a years experience.

No An D K, I'm not applying to everyone at once. I was once warned against 'flooding the market' with my CV. Also, I'm glad i didn't, cos I sent out a cv with changes shown in it
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I didn't do well with recruiters after Uni, all of my interviews were from putting my own CV out, and all of their CV advice was rubbish, I got help from a lecturer (cheers Daniel) then, and a producer (cheers Owen) this time.

AN_D_K · 06-01-2010, 10:52 AM

Recruiters are shit and pointless for graduates because there is nothing to set you apart from the others and why should they care if you or one of the others gets the job.

Anyone with a good amount of experience doesn't need a recruiter because they have a good amount of experience and a solid network.

It's people with a little bit of experience that are the sweet spot for recruiters. You'll end up being the mostly likely person on their list that they can unload so they'll make the effort.

I understand about spamming your CV. But it's not like all the companies check up with every other company to see if anyone is desperate enough just to email everyone. Just don't make it look like a mail-merge coverletter.

When I said every possible company I meant you should cast a wide net and consider working for smaller companies, not-quite-game companies, mobile games companies, etc. Rather than just the few you really fancy working for.

TheUmpteenth · 06-01-2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AN_D_K
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Recruiters are shit and pointless for graduates because there is nothing to set you apart from the others and why should they care if you or one of the others gets the job.

Anyone with a good amount of experience doesn't need a recruiter because they have a good amount of experience and a solid network.

It's people with a little bit of experience that are the sweet spot for recruiters. You'll end up being the mostly likely person on their list that they can unload so they'll make the effort.

I understand about spamming your CV. But it's not like all the companies check up with every other company to see if anyone is desperate enough just to email everyone. Just don't make it look like a mail-merge coverletter.

When I said every possible company I meant you should cast a wide net and consider working for smaller companies, not-quite-game companies, mobile games companies, etc. Rather than just the few you really fancy working for.

Thanks man, I don't know if I'll take you up on the recruiters bit, but I'm gonna send out a whole bunch of CVs today.
and congrats on post 666!

AN_D_K · 06-01-2010, 11:05 AM

Just make sure you're happy with your CV and portfolio first. Obviously you won't be able to apply to a company again for a while once you send it in.

RaspoFabs · 08-01-2010, 11:23 AM

Code in any time you have at home. it's beneficial in man ways, you get to learn new languages, you get to complete projects quicker, and you get demos for showing to people.

I'm a professional game coder and have three children and still find time to do about five to ten hours coding at home every week. It's enough to learn a new language in a month (C# in my case recently, python further back), and even write cool things that might even come in useful at work sometime in the future.

The engine we had at Broadsword for half of our games was written as a home project for the first couple of years of it's life. It was nice seeing it used as production code in a slew of titles over the years.

You can always find time if you really care about something. In fact, I'd say you can reverse it and say it's an indicator of whether you really care or not.

TheUmpteenth · 08-01-2010, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaspoFabs
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I'd say you can reverse it and say it's an indicator of whether you really care or not.

That's what I'm afraid of. People will think I don't care because I've not been coding at home for a bit. I'll take the advice though.
Updating portfolio...

biru · 13-01-2010, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUmpteenth
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That's what I'm afraid of. People will think I don't care because I've not been coding at home for a bit. I'll take the advice though. Updating portfolio...

There are many reasons why somebody can't code at home and this doesn't mean that you don't care, but obviously coding at home is a good way to get new skills or study a subject that can be useful for your job.

FoxyBunny · 08-02-2010, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUmpteenth
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that I've got 2 and a bit years experience? I seem to be having the same amount of luck as when I was a new graduate (although I've learned not to use agencies).To be fair, my demos have not changed, I've been making games for my job, and had less spare time to program in.

I'd like to point out that with competition being fierce, companies are looking at the total person as much as at your skills and experience. If your resume hasn't been updated to include your interests, hobbies and future goals, you may want to do a little alteration. This is particularly important in smaller companies that want to ensure they pick someone who will be a good fit with the other members of the team.

Good luck on your search!

05-01-2010, 10:18 PM	#1
TheUmpteenth Knight Elf Mohawk One Of Us Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: This side of the Bermuda Triangle Posts: 64 Thanks: 20 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Am I more or less likely to get a job now that I've got 2 and a bit years experience? I seem to be having the same amount of luck as when I was a new graduate (although I've learned not to use agencies). To be fair, my demos have not changed, I've been making games for my job, and had less spare time to program in.

05-01-2010, 11:00 PM	#3
MaciejS Gaming God One Of Us Join Date: May 2006 Location: Canada Posts: 1,444 Thanks: 455 Thanked 567 Times in 265 Posts Groans: 3 Groaned at 12 Times in 8 Posts	Do you have any finished projects on your resume? Generally speaking, it should be easier for you now than it was when you were fresh after uni. Potential problem is, with all recent lay-offs, there are many really experienced people (~7-10+ years) looking for work right now, so it probably makes things harder for juniors. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-01-2010, 11:23 AM	#12
RaspoFabs Lurker One Of Us Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: UK Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	CV and portfolio Code in any time you have at home. it's beneficial in man ways, you get to learn new languages, you get to complete projects quicker, and you get demos for showing to people. I'm a professional game coder and have three children and still find time to do about five to ten hours coding at home every week. It's enough to learn a new language in a month (C# in my case recently, python further back), and even write cool things that might even come in useful at work sometime in the future. The engine we had at Broadsword for half of our games was written as a home project for the first couple of years of it's life. It was nice seeing it used as production code in a slew of titles over the years. You can always find time if you really care about something. In fact, I'd say you can reverse it and say it's an indicator of whether you really care or not.

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05-01-2010, 10:43 PM	#2
GDave Gamer One Of Us Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 263 Thanks: 114 Thanked 120 Times in 53 Posts Groans: 2 Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post	I know nothing of a programmers right of way, but if it's anything like anything else, then you need to stay on top... I'm a relatively competent artist... but if I were to get made redundant right now I would need to spend a few months building up a new portfolio before any company would even give me the time of day. A bit of a catch 22, I guess. Personal Work > Job < Personal Work. Which is fine and dandy so long as I'm employed, if I wasn't though... I'd be working on new stuff immediately. As I say though... I know nothing about the hiring of programmers.

06-01-2010, 12:50 AM	#4
TheUmpteenth Knight Elf Mohawk One Of Us Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: This side of the Bermuda Triangle Posts: 64 Thanks: 20 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have three published games, one canned title and two more in the works. I think that GDave's probably right about me needing to update my portfolio, though. am I gonna have a chance over a graduate? Does that mean I should be looking for a graduate position? a junior position is all I'm looking for.

06-01-2010, 10:24 AM	#6
AN_D_K Gaming Guru One Of Us Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 920 Thanks: 210 Thanked 468 Times in 210 Posts Groans: 2 Groaned at 14 Times in 8 Posts	Are you sure you're applying to every possible company? The last few people I've known who have moved to a new company I've had to ask "who are they then?" I don't know if it's worth trying a recruitment agent just to smooth over any edges? The catch is that it will make you more expensive to hire. I'd rarely recommend using a recruiter but it was useful for me when I only had a years experience.

06-01-2010, 10:26 AM	#7
TheUmpteenth Knight Elf Mohawk One Of Us Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: This side of the Bermuda Triangle Posts: 64 Thanks: 20 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts Groans: 0 Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks everyone. I'm not blaming myself now. The jobs market squarely shoulders the blame.

06-01-2010, 10:52 AM	#9
AN_D_K Gaming Guru One Of Us Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 920 Thanks: 210 Thanked 468 Times in 210 Posts Groans: 2 Groaned at 14 Times in 8 Posts	Recruiters are shit and pointless for graduates because there is nothing to set you apart from the others and why should they care if you or one of the others gets the job. Anyone with a good amount of experience doesn't need a recruiter because they have a good amount of experience and a solid network. It's people with a little bit of experience that are the sweet spot for recruiters. You'll end up being the mostly likely person on their list that they can unload so they'll make the effort. I understand about spamming your CV. But it's not like all the companies check up with every other company to see if anyone is desperate enough just to email everyone. Just don't make it look like a mail-merge coverletter. When I said every possible company I meant you should cast a wide net and consider working for smaller companies, not-quite-game companies, mobile games companies, etc. Rather than just the few you really fancy working for.

06-01-2010, 11:05 AM	#11
AN_D_K Gaming Guru One Of Us Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 920 Thanks: 210 Thanked 468 Times in 210 Posts Groans: 2 Groaned at 14 Times in 8 Posts	Just make sure you're happy with your CV and portfolio first. Obviously you won't be able to apply to a company again for a while once you send it in.